Cons: In our experience, capping your calories low will probably mean a lot of internal strife and stress. Plus, we’re big fans of enjoying food instead of fearing it, and 800 calories doesn’t leave much room for satisfied taste buds. Lastly, if you’re currently eating double to triple this amount of food, dropping to a daily caloric intake this low can tank your metabolism and actually slow weight loss more than switching to one of these other diets might. (Curious? Here’s why starving yourself won’t help you lose weight.)
Hi Maya. I LOVE your site!! Interesting, informative with fab recipes and ideas. Hubby and I have just started eating low carb and I have to say, we are not finding it too difficult and I already feel sooo much better!! I find the hardest part is choosing low carb veg, I feel as if we are not eating enough. Any suggestions on how to get more veggies into our diet?
H. Guldbrand, B. Dizdar, B. Bunjaku, T. Lindström, M. Bachrach-Lindström, M. Fredrikson, C. J. Östgren, F. H. Nystrom, “In Type 2 Diabetes, Randomisation to Advice to Follow a Low-carbohydrate Diet Transiently Improves Glycaemic Control Compared with Advice to Follow a Low-fat Diet Producing a Similar Weight Loss,” Diabetologia (2012) 55: 2118. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-012-2567-4.
It’s easy to get keto and paleo confused since many of the same foods are encouraged in both diets. The keto diet is specifically crafted as a very low carbohydrate diet to get the body into a state of ketosis. The paleo diet focuses on bringing eating back to the basics and eating like our hunter-gatherer ancestors with less emphasis on where the calories are coming from: carbs, fat or protein. The paleo diet includes lean meats, seafood, seasonal veggies, some nuts and fruit and eliminates grains, dairy, processed foods, and certain oils. 
Roussell explains that when we get too hungry, our bodies secrete a hormone called, ghrelin, which controls our hunger and appetite. If too much ghrelin is released, we get hangry and will grab pretty much anything. Before bed, however, Roussell says going to sleep a bit hungry can actually be beneficial. “Going to be hungry may actually help you sleep better as ghrelin makes your body more responsive to compounds in your brain that aid in sleep.”
“There are many diet plans on the market today that promote good health,” says Emily Kyle, RDN, who is in private practice in Rochester, New York. “The key is finding one that does not cause you stress or agony.” Ask yourself questions such as: Would the diet guidelines make you happy? Anxious? Stressed? Are you able to follow them long term? “Factors such as enjoyment, flexibility, and longevity should be strongly considered,” adds Kyle.
However, the meta-analysis was riddled with confounding variables — one of which being their lackadaisical definition of a low-carb diet. The researchers identified a low-carb diet as a diet where less than 45% of its calories come from carbs. With such a lax criterion for low-carb, it is difficult to tell if a true low-carb diet (i.e., fewer than 26% of calories coming from carbs) is genuinely the best dietary option for type 2 diabetics.

Short-term results for the LGIT indicate that at one month approximately half of the patients experience a greater than 50% reduction in seizure frequency, with overall figures approaching that of the ketogenic diet. The data (coming from one centre's experience with 76 children up to the year 2009) also indicate fewer side effects than the ketogenic diet and that it is better tolerated, with more palatable meals.[3][49]


U.S. News’s Best Diets rankings are put together by a panel of nutritionists, dietary consultants, and doctors specializing in diabetes, heart health, and weight loss. Each member of the panel scored all 41 diets in seven different areas, including how easy they are to follow, how well they protect against chronic disease, and how likely it is that followers will actually lose weight and keep it off.
On May 24, 2018, I had a 90-day follow-up appointment with my doctor. When he came to the exam room with my chart he immediately started to fist pump me with praise of congratulations, he was ecstatic. I am now at 233 pounds (106 kg)! I have lost 51 pounds (23 kg) and my girlfriend has lost 25 pounds (11 kg). I went from a 42-inch (107 cm) waist to a 38-inch (96 cm) waist. But, here’s the best part, my A1c came down to 5.7 and all my health markers have improved. He called me his poster child for being on the path to curing my Type 2 diabetes.
DASH stands for "Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension." The diet was developed out of a study by the National Institutes of Health after researchers noticed that vegetarians tended to have lower rates of high blood pressure. Understanding that sodium intake affected blood pressure, researchers also believed that these levels may also be impacted by other nutrients in plant-based diets.
While it’s true that low-carb diets do raise the so-called bad LDL-cholesterol in some people, it’s important to note that LDL-C, when influenced by diet, has never been shown to have any effect on cardiovascular risk. Large clinical trials and observational studies show that one’s level of LDL-C and the lowering of LDL-C through diet is not reliably linked to cardiovascular outcomes.21, 22, 23
Long-term use of the ketogenic diet in children increases the risk of slowed or stunted growth, bone fractures and kidney stones.[3] The diet reduces levels of insulin-like growth factor 1, which is important for childhood growth. Like many anticonvulsant drugs, the ketogenic diet has an adverse effect on bone health. Many factors may be involved such as acidosis and suppressed growth hormone.[37] About 1 in 20 children on the ketogenic diet will develop kidney stones (compared with one in several thousand for the general population). A class of anticonvulsants known as carbonic anhydrase inhibitors (topiramate, zonisamide) are known to increase the risk of kidney stones, but the combination of these anticonvulsants and the ketogenic diet does not appear to elevate the risk above that of the diet alone.[38] The stones are treatable and do not justify discontinuation of the diet.[38] Johns Hopkins Hospital now gives oral potassium citrate supplements to all ketogenic diet patients, resulting in a sevenfold decrease in the incidence of kidney stones.[39] However, this empiric usage has not been tested in a prospective controlled trial.[9] Kidney stone formation (nephrolithiasis) is associated with the diet for four reasons:[38]

The subjects had a mean BMI of 42.2, mean age of 56 years, and were of either African-American or Caucasian descent. In their intervention, subjects consumed a LCKD diet with the goal of eating less than 20 grams of carbohydrates per day while reducing dosages of diabetes medication. Subjects also received nutritional counseling and medication adjustment every two weeks.


In my food shopping we save about $40 a week even though we eat seafood twice a week. A fillet of salmon or swordfish that feeds two is about the same price of the cut of steak that I would grill for myself. Preparing snacks on Sunday night also means no more trips to the office vending machine for that late-day snack. “I joked around with a couple of colleagues last week in my presentation,” Susan mentioned. “I said, ‘You know, we’re paying for diabetes, we’re paying for high blood pressure. Why not invest your money and diet in food sources that are good for you body?'”

In my food shopping we save about $40 a week even though we eat seafood twice a week. A fillet of salmon or swordfish that feeds two is about the same price of the cut of steak that I would grill for myself. Preparing snacks on Sunday night also means no more trips to the office vending machine for that late-day snack. “I joked around with a couple of colleagues last week in my presentation,” Susan mentioned. “I said, ‘You know, we’re paying for diabetes, we’re paying for high blood pressure. Why not invest your money and diet in food sources that are good for you body?'”
Your recipes sound wonderful. I have tried a few. I am a senior living alone and adjusting them can be a challenge. Let’s face it eating the same thing several days in a row can make even a good thing boring. Another thing you and most others posting recipes forget is some of us have very little to spend on food so reading your recipes is many times the only dream of good food.
I LOVE your recipes and entire program! You simplify eating healthfully and your recipes look delicious. I have arthritis and must eat a restricted diet that is anti-inflamatory. I can easily see ways to adapt some of your recipes. The diet forbids grains, beans, wheat, chick peas, potatoes, pasta, or any fruits or vegetables with seeds, etc. I was skeptical about this diet at first but if I stick to the diet, I really do experience less pain. I would so wish to have your recipes adapted for the home cook with substitutions of allowed foods for the forbidden. For instance, I am going to try to make your phyllo recipe using almond flour, and in other recipes using only pasture grazed dairy such as goat and sheeps milk cheeses, yogurts, eggs etc. Thank your for your inspiration and I would be so grateful if you would turn your gifted cooking attention to helping those of us in pain to adapt your delicious and healthful diet to include anti-inflamation recipes. There is a huge and eager market for this.

It appears that a ketogenic diet is generally safe when implemented correctly. One must be careful to obtain all the necessary nutrients by eating a variety of foods, such as non-starchy vegetables, seeds, and nuts, and also consume adequate protein and essential fatty acids. Provided that the need for vitamins, minerals, amino acids and fatty acids is met, there is no reason to suspect that the ketogenic diet is unsafe.


Adherence to the DASH-style pattern may also help prevent the development of diabetes, as analyzed in a recent meta-analysis, and kidney disease as found in the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) cohort that followed more than 3700 people who developed kidney disease. [8, 9] Dietary components of DASH that were protective in the ARIC cohort included a high intake of nuts, legumes, and low-fat dairy products. A high intake of red meat and processed meats increased kidney disease risk.
You are so biased against Keto, this can be noticed very quickly because almost every positive thing you say about Keto, you immediately follow with a “but…” negative statement. And most of your negatives are simply saying it’s hard to maintain. You completely exaggerate the negatives “If you have one bad day and your body is kicked out of Ketosis, you immediately gain all of your weight back”. That is simply not true; if someone is on a Keto diet for 3 months, they will not gain that weight back in a day. Also, their body will be back into Ketosis the next morning. You say that the ADA doesn’t recommend 60-70 grams per meal, but it does (coincidentally I just left their website before coming here). I don’t claim to be a Diabetes expert; I admit that. But your bias is leaning heavily against Keto. “Moderation” is not your goal if you have diabetes. When you compare HbA1C levels, for example, you compare them with someone in Keto at less than 20 g of Carbs per day as compared to someone at a 70-90 gram of carbs per day diet. You should be fair and compare them with someone on a 200 g of Carbs diet. If you want to get rid of the effects of Diabetes, get on a Keto Diet, period. It MAY get rid of the effects completely, but in the very least it WILL reduce your Insulin needs to very low and you’ll have little-to-no side effects other than a relatively restrictive diet (most diets are WAY more restrictive than Keto). You back up everything with “science” and misleading numbers/arguments without providing any real evidence.
Wolfrum said he and his colleagues don't want to stop people from changing their diet if that's what's necessary to reach a healthy weight, but they think it's important for people to know that "the [final] verdict on the ketogenic diet is not out yet." There's still more research to be done to fully understand the long-term effects of a high-fat, low-carb diet. In the meantime, said Wolfrum, "more balanced food intake is probably the healthiest way to live."

The improvement in glycemic control occurred while medications for diabetes were discontinued or reduced in most participants (Table ​(Table5).5). During the study, hypertension and hyperlipidemia medication doses were not increased from baseline nor were new agents added, except in 3 individuals. No serious adverse effects related to the diet occurred. One participant had a hypoglycemic episode requiring assistance from emergency services after he skipped a meal but the episode was aborted without need for transportation to the emergency room or hospitalization.

Choice #1: Lathero Dish (seasonal vegetables or beans cooked with olive oil, herbs, and tomato sauce accompanied by bread and cheese). This is what you will have 3-4 times a week. Typically this is green beans, peas, spanakorizo (spinach-rice) and cauliflower cooked in this way. This is accompanied by a slice of bread and feta. Click for lathera recipes. Please note that one serving consists of 3-4 servings of vegetables.


Several recent studies indicate that a low-carbohydrate diet is effective at improving glycemia. A few studies have shown that in non-diabetic individuals, low-carbohydrate diets were more effective than higher carbohydrate diets at improving fasting serum glucose [13,14] and insulin [6,14-16], and at improving insulin sensitivity as measured by the homeostasis model [6]. One of these studies also included diabetic patients and noted a comparative improvement in hemoglobin A1c after 6 months (low fat diet: 0.0 ± 1.0%; low carbohydrate diet: -0.6 ± 1.2%, p = 0.06) [6] and 12 months (low fat diet: -0.1 ± 1.6%; low carbohydrate diet: -0.7 ± 1.0%, p = 0.019) duration [5]. In a 5-week crossover feeding study, 8 men with type 2 diabetes had greater improvement in fasting glucose, 24-hour glucose area-under-the-curve (AUC), 24-hour insulin AUC, and glycohemoglobin while on the low-carbohydrate diet than when on a eucaloric low-fat diet [7]. In a 14-day inpatient feeding study, 10 participants with type 2 diabetes experienced improvements in hemoglobin A1c and insulin sensitivity as measured by the euglycemic hyperinsulinemic clamp method [8]. Hemoglobin A1c also improved in an outpatient study of 16 participants who followed a 20% carbohydrate diet for 24 weeks [9].
The 2019 rankings include 41 of today’s most popular diets. New to the list this year is the Nordic Diet, a plant-heavy eating plan that incorporates Scandinavian traditions and ranked 9th best overall. Here’s how the rest of the rankings shook out this year, and what experts have to say about the good, the bad, and the trendy. (Here’s a hint: They’re still not crazy about keto.)
“As soon as you start consuming a normal amount of carbohydrates again, you immediately go out of ketoacidosis or the fat burning state”. I am sure you know the difference between nutritional ketosis and ketoacidosis yes? One is the natural fat burning state, and the other is toxic. Right now i am in ketosis but not ketoacidosis. One has a natural balance of Ph level, the other not. Once you make that statement, i have a sick feeling i am not getting the right information here.
The cost of the Mediterranean diet, like most aspects of the diet, depends on how you shape it. While some ingredients (olive oil, nuts, fish and fresh produce in particular) can be expensive, you can find ways to keep the tab reasonable – especially if you're replacing red meats and meals with plant-based home cooking, some research suggests. Your shopping choices matter, too. Can't spring for the $50 bottle of wine? Grab one for $15 instead. And snag whatever veggies are on sale that day, rather than the $3-a-piece artichokes.
This is a helpful article. But there are some inaccurate things too. I have type two diabetes and use a keto genie diet to lose weight (45# so far). I was able to get my cholesterol down, Triggs down, and my A1C to 6! I went off and followed a Mediterranean diet for a year. I gained back 15# and my diabetes got worse. So I am back on keto. I am using a closer to Mediterranean keto both then and now.

What the diet guru says: According to David Zinczenko, author of The 8-hour Diet, eating all your meals within a set window is the key to burning fat. ‘By carving out an eight-hour window in which to eat to your heart's content, you'll burn your body's fat stores effortlessly. The science is actually simple: for several years, researchers have been producing remarkable weight loss results in people using "intermittent fasting". In this case, fasting is about eating whatever you want, but staying within a sensible eight-hour window. This gives your body the chance to burn away your fat stores for the energy it needs.’
After initiation, the child regularly visits the hospital outpatient clinic where he or she is seen by the dietitian and neurologist, and various tests and examinations are performed. These are held every three months for the first year and then every six months thereafter. Infants under one year old are seen more frequently, with the initial visit held after just two to four weeks.[9] A period of minor adjustments is necessary to ensure consistent ketosis is maintained and to better adapt the meal plans to the patient. This fine-tuning is typically done over the telephone with the hospital dietitian[18] and includes changing the number of calories, altering the ketogenic ratio, or adding some MCT or coconut oils to a classic diet.[3] Urinary ketone levels are checked daily to detect whether ketosis has been achieved and to confirm that the patient is following the diet, though the level of ketones does not correlate with an anticonvulsant effect.[18] This is performed using ketone test strips containing nitroprusside, which change colour from buff-pink to maroon in the presence of acetoacetate (one of the three ketone bodies).[44]

If you like eating meat and want to lose weight, you might be tempted to try this recent extreme diet fad that proponents have made some pretty outrageous claims about. One: that eating nothing but meat can cure you of autoimmune diseases. The problem is that there’s no good research to support that notion, or any other health claim, for that matter. Indeed, omitting foods known to be good for you — fruits and veggies among them — can lead to a bunch of unwanted side effects, including constipation and potentially dangerous nutrient deficiencies. Still, since you’re cutting out so many food groups, there’s a decent chance you’ll lose weight, experts say. Regardless of any possible benefits you might see, this restrictive approach is definitely one you’ll want to ask your doc about before you even consider diving in.


The ADA has recommended since 2013 we use our best clinical judgement in recommending a low carbohydrate diet for people with diabetes, recognizing it needs to be individualized. 60-75 grams is the carbohydrate amount I would give to a very tall, large boned man or perhaps an active teen or young adult. I would never recommend that many carbohydrates for an average size man who was trying to lose weight; he would get 45-60 grams of carbohydrates per meal and 15-30 grams for snacks. A women trying to lose weight would get 30-45 grams of carbohydrates per meal and 15 grams for snacks.
A: The most common ways to track your carbs is through MyFitnessPal and their mobile app. You cannot track net carbs on the app, although you can track your total carb intake and your total fiber intake. To get your net carbs, just subtract your total fiber intake from your total carb intake. I have written an article on How to Track Carbs on MyFitnessPal.
You are so biased against Keto, this can be noticed very quickly because almost every positive thing you say about Keto, you immediately follow with a “but…” negative statement. And most of your negatives are simply saying it’s hard to maintain. You completely exaggerate the negatives “If you have one bad day and your body is kicked out of Ketosis, you immediately gain all of your weight back”. That is simply not true; if someone is on a Keto diet for 3 months, they will not gain that weight back in a day. Also, their body will be back into Ketosis the next morning. You say that the ADA doesn’t recommend 60-70 grams per meal, but it does (coincidentally I just left their website before coming here). I don’t claim to be a Diabetes expert; I admit that. But your bias is leaning heavily against Keto. “Moderation” is not your goal if you have diabetes. When you compare HbA1C levels, for example, you compare them with someone in Keto at less than 20 g of Carbs per day as compared to someone at a 70-90 gram of carbs per day diet. You should be fair and compare them with someone on a 200 g of Carbs diet. If you want to get rid of the effects of Diabetes, get on a Keto Diet, period. It MAY get rid of the effects completely, but in the very least it WILL reduce your Insulin needs to very low and you’ll have little-to-no side effects other than a relatively restrictive diet (most diets are WAY more restrictive than Keto). You back up everything with “science” and misleading numbers/arguments without providing any real evidence.

I picked up this book because I had heard in several places that the DASH diet was currently the diet most recommended by doctors. So far the books have been disappointing. This book basically lays out a low carb diet, low fat diet that I'm not sure is mainstream DASH or just the program used by this particular author. I can see where the diet would result in weight loss for someone eating the Standard American Diet (SAD) but I can't think that sugar-free jello and flavored yogurt and low-fat pr ...more
WH Verdict: Not all lectins are created equal and research into their impact on the body is ongoing. In fact, to date, there are no human studies linking the dietary lectins with a harmful immune response in healthy people. A lectin-free diet is also incredibly restrictive, with the list of foods you can’t eat reading like a typical shopping list for your average nutrition-conscious foodie, making it unsustainable and putting you at risk of nutritional deficiencies.
Your body needs a certain amount of essential vitamins and minerals to function properly. What happens when you don’t get enough of them? What happens when you eat too little food, or when the food you eat isn’t sufficiently nutritious? Perhaps our bodies catch on and reply by increasing hunger levels. After all – if we eat more, we increase the chances of consuming enough of whatever nutrient we are lacking.
Roussell explains that when we get too hungry, our bodies secrete a hormone called, ghrelin, which controls our hunger and appetite. If too much ghrelin is released, we get hangry and will grab pretty much anything. Before bed, however, Roussell says going to sleep a bit hungry can actually be beneficial. “Going to be hungry may actually help you sleep better as ghrelin makes your body more responsive to compounds in your brain that aid in sleep.”
That’s because the DASH Diet has been proven to work, says Reshmi Srinath, M.D., an assistant professor at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. One study found that people who followed the DASH Diet had lower blood pressure and LDL (bad) cholesterol levels than those who consumed a typical American diet or an American diet infused with extra fruits and veggies.

Because the diet isn’t as restrictive as a traditional vegan or vegetarian diet, it may be simpler to stick with — hence its No. 2 ranking in U.S. News & World Report’s Easiest Diets to Follow category. Because you’ll be eating meat some of the time, you may also be at a lower risk of the aforementioned nutrient deficiencies that vegetarians and vegans may face.

Recently, four studies have re-examined the effect of carbohydrate restriction on type 2 diabetes. One outpatient study enrolled 54 participants with type 2 diabetes (out of 132 total participants) and found that hemoglobin A1c improved to a greater degree over one year with a low-carbohydrate diet compared with a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet [5,6]. Another study enrolled 8 men with type 2 diabetes in a 5-week crossover outpatient feeding study that tested similar diets [7]. The participants had greater improvement in glycohemoglobin while on the low-carbohydrate diet than when on a eucaloric low-fat diet. The third study was an inpatient feeding study in 10 participants with type 2 diabetes [8]. After only 14 days, hemoglobin A1c improved from 7.3% to 6.8%. In the fourth study, 16 participants with type 2 diabetes who followed a 20% carbohydrate diet had improvement of hemoglobin A1c from 8.0% to 6.6% over 24 weeks [9]. Only these latter three studies targeted glycemic control as a goal, and two of these were intensely-monitored efficacy studies in which all food was provided to participants for the duration of the study [7,8]. Three of the studies [6,8,9] mentioned that diabetic medications were adjusted but only one of them provided detailed information regarding these adjustments [9]. This information is critical for patients on medication for diabetes who initiate a low-carbohydrate diet because of the potential for adverse effects resulting from hypoglycemia.


Many diets, including Atkins and the keto diet, fit into this umbrella. A typical low-carb diet limits carbs to less than 60 g daily, but this can vary, according to the Mayo Clinic. (15) In a September 2015 review published in PLoS One, people following low-carb diets saw modest weight loss — although study authors note that long-term effects of the diet require further research. (16)

What the expert says: ‘Like with atkins, you will lose weight quickly. The ketogenic diet is used in medicine, but under strict supervision and for set periods of time, so with appropriate support it can be safe in the short to medium term. The brain does use glucose as its fuel of choice, so ‘brain fog’ lethargy are common side effects. You’ll known when your body is running off ketones by your breath – it’s known as ‘keto breath’, and it’s bad. It also can affect your ability to exercise by due to a lack of quickly accessible energy.


In summary, the LCKD had positive effects on body weight, waist measurement, serum triglycerides, and glycemic control in a cohort of 21 participants with type 2 diabetes. Most impressive is that improvement in hemoglobin A1c was observed despite a small sample size and short duration of follow-up, and this improvement in glycemic control occurred while diabetes medications were reduced substantially in many participants. Future research must further examine the optimal medication adjustments, particularly for diabetes and diuretic agents, in order to avoid possible complications of hypoglycemia and dehydration. Because the LCKD can be very effective at lowering blood glucose, patients on diabetes medication who use this diet should be under close medical supervision or capable of adjusting their medication.
And most important, she notes: Her blood sugar is at an all-time low. About a year ago, she went to the ER because her blood sugar levels rose to between 600 and 800 mg/dL — indicating she was at risk of a diabetic coma. But now, her postprandial glucose is between 150 and 200 mg/dL. “My sugars have been on a steady decline since March,” she says. Her A1C — a two- to three-month average of blood sugar levels — also went from 10.4 to 8.7, an improvement, though still in the range for type 2 diabetes, according to according to the ADA.
While we’re on the subject of water, why not throw a few lemon slices into the hydrating and satiating beverage? In addition to adding a pop of color and flavor to a tall glass of H2O, lemon can also help encourage weight loss. Just one of the bright citrus fruits contains an entire day’s worth of vitamin C, a nutrient that has the power to reduce levels of a stress hormone called cortisol that triggers hunger and fat storage. Additionally, lemons also contain polyphenols, which researchers say may ward off fat accumulation and weight gain.

As far as the Ketogenic Diet is concerned, I think I am going to have to make a full about-face. As you said, for some people like yourself, you were unable to eat in moderation and feel it is due to your genetic makeup. This is probably true…to add insult to injury, in addition to genetics, it could also be an inflammatory process going on due to the sugary drinks and processed foods we are eating causing obesity and a host of other issues.

Calorie Restriction. Most of the research on type 2 diabetes supports the use of calorie restriction for improving many of the metabolic issues that contribute to the condition. [19] [20] Both the keto diet and low-calorie diets have been shown to help reduce insulin resistance, and many researchers postulate that being in a calorie deficit is the key variable behind these positive effects.[19] [20] For most of us, the keto diet is the better option to experience the benefits of calorie restriction because it allows you to cut your calories naturally without eliciting strong hunger pangs and cravings.
Selecting the right food will be easier as you become accustomed to the Keto approach. Instead of lean meats, you’ll focus on skin-on poultry, fattier parts like chicken thighs, rib-eye steaks, grass-fed ground beef, fattier fish like salmon, beef brisket or pork shoulder, and bacon. Leafy greens such as spinach, kale and lettuce, along with broccoli, cauliflower and cucumbers, make healthy vegetable choices (but you’ll avoid starchy root foods like carrots, potatoes, turnips and parsnips). You can work in less-familiar veggies such as kohlrabi or daikon.
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